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whats s1 and s2 marijuana seeds

S1 seeds

I already posted some of this elsewhere, however I keep learning over time and want to pass on helpful info. I apologize to the seed sellers, because in fact, if you have just one of their feminized seeds, you can make hundreds very easily. Fortunately, most people are rather lazy and impatient, and since a $5-$10 seeds gets you $$$$$ in pot, hopefully the seed sellers will continue to be very successful.

I’m experimenting with making S1 seeds, mostly just because I’m an autistic nerd and want to know how. I have no plans to sell any (which is illegal in Cal.).

I have 10 autoflower variety of plants growin right now (in 2 locations to keep pollen from mixing). 4 of my seed bearing plants are using colloidal silver forced pollen from one F1 plant, spread onto another F1 plant who’s 3-4 weeks younger.

All are making seeds. Pretty much, if you make colloidal silver, spray until you see the male pods (you’ll be worried the first time, but once you know them you’ll never worry again), you will absolutely get pollen. And trust the pics on the net. If you’re in doubt, once they start to have darker lines on them (maybe purple), you’re in business. If they open up, you can use tweesers to harvest pollen pods, as long as you see several (4 or 5) green or yellow fibers in them (bananas). Don’t have to be yellow, just put them in something and let it dry. But in the long run, you might learn you don’t have to harvest them at all. It’s always easy to make a plant produce it’s own pollen! So why save the stuff?

I goofed up on an AK47 and sprayed it even after the male pods formed, stunting pollen making. Everyone kept emphasizing how you might even have to spray it 3 times a day, so I went overboard.

Produced no pollen in the time I expected. So I ditched it to another room, not wanting to kill it.

That sucker is still alive today, 2 months past it’s predicted lifespan. It’s making so much pollen that I don’t even collect it. Looks to me like she might even pollinate a few of the flower hairs she’s managed to grow along with the really old pollen sacs. We’ll see. That would be a free S1.

One White Widow in particular is making huge amounts of seeds. In her case, she sat next to one of her own kind, 4 weeks older and forced to make pollen using colloidal silver. Then when the entire older plant was covered in male pollen sacs and most were bursting open, I fluffed it with my hands towards the second plant. It was a HEAVY yellow cloud of pollen. I choked from it! Now I can sympathize with those who have asthma from pollen.

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Thus he’s FULL of seeds. Not only that, but the first plant that made the huge burst of pollen, has done it again and again and again. I’m going to have to sweep up that floor. Meanwhile, the plant I forced to make pollen grew some flowers anyway, and she’s pollinated herself.

In another case, I collected pollen first, let that plant mature and die, then tried to use the pollen on another of his kind (Lowryder#2). Both were F1. I got seeds, but nothing like the ones I got with that huge burst of pollen. I tried to paint the pollen on with a brush, only to find out, that doesn’t work as well as people claim. You get a few seeds per flower bud. And you can tell in 3 days if you’re getting any, because the white hairs that accepted pollen turn orange. But a ton of them don’t change color at all, and if you wait a week or two, you can see that you only got a few seeds. So the brush doesn’t work well, unless you’re handy with it and very patient.

I finally learned what I believe is the best trick for making seeds. Just spray only part of the plant with colloidal silver, let that make male pods, then let those pollinate the flowers on the same plant, where you didn’t spray. Just fluff it up when the pollen is ready, and there’s a ton of flowers.

I didn’t try that the first time because I thought that autoflowering varieties didn’t all live long enough to make seeds using their own pollen.

I was dead wrong. Take the times they give you for lowryder#2, AK47, Super Skunk, and add a MONTH to the actual life of the plant. The underestimate. Those 3 are all able to make seeds using their own pollen. Not to mention the longer lived autoflowers, like blueberry.

One thing I learned about making colloidal silver. There’s a lot of superstition in that area. I’m hoping UC Davis’s new marijuana department will clear up some of the marijuana controversies.

In the case of colloidal silver, it DOES NOT harm the plant, if you follow good directions for making it (like on this forum).

Also, the TDS meter doesn’t work on colloidal silver. Or at least, mine doesn’t. I brewed it until it read 50, then for fun I brewed it some more. Read 50 2 more days in a row. So I took the 50 silver, diluted it with equally as much water, and it still read 50.

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But, it doesn’t get a yellow/brown color like they say. Just go for that, works fine without measuring it.

Also, the silver wires you use, DO WEAR OUT. I’m not sure why people are claiming you can brew thousands of batches. Those little suckers wear out after about 5 batches. And after each batch, if you look closely, they’ve gotten thinner. To balance that out, switch + and – once in a while. One of them wears out more than the other.

Producing s2 seeds from a s1 landrace.

The real truth is that many people have different opinions about your question.

I would guess very few of them have ever done an s1 let alone an s2 .

So, just do it and get back to us on the outcome.

Comment

  • Join Date: May 2006
  • Posts: 8455

As far as the ‘genetic math’ goes, since what most of you guys call an S1, most botanists call an f2. Making ‘S2s’ you are actually making f3s. If the ‘S1’ was accidental from a hermie, then that trait will continue to be passed into the progeny.

Other that that rgd is fairly correct in that the only real way to know the outcome of a breeding project is to do said project. best of luck.

"In science it often happens that scientists say, ‘You know that’s a really good argument; my position is mistaken,’ and then they actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. . It happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." – Carl Sagan

"There is rebirth of character, but no transmigration of a self. Thy thought-forms reappear, but there is no egoentity transferred. The stanza uttered by a teacher is reborn in the scholar who repeats the words. Only through ignorance and delusion do men indulge in the dream that their souls are separate and self-existent entities.""Our thinking is gone, but our thoughts continue. Reasoning ceases, but knowledge remains." – Buddha

Comment

  • Join Date: Oct 2007
  • Posts: 46

thank you both for your comments, I will start the experiment and post updates in the forum.

Think botanists only use Filial F1,2,3 etc for distinctly different parental types, f1 having double the potential phenotypes as S1 due to the cross. not sure if that’s semantics or has relevance to volume of phenotypes in S1’s?

regards the seeds being a S1/F2fem due to hermie, the plant was chemically reversed rather then it being a genetic trite to pass on.

Comment

  • Join Date: May 2006
  • Posts: 8455

No need for me to get into a designation argument. I’m well versed in proper botanical nomenclature.

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If the plant which was selfed was heterozygous, then the fx designations will apply, as will the genetic math relating to incrossing sibling hybrid progeny.
If it was an inbred line. then the progeny you are calling ‘s2’ will be not much different from any other sibling inbreeding from that line.

As far as an F1 having double the possibly phenotypes as an S1. That’s simply wrong.

Breed two differing homozygous plants to produce an F1 hybrid, and the progeny will all be very uniform.

Breed one of those heterozygous progeny to itself (or a sibling, it makes no difference), and you will get several different genotypes as a result. roughly 25% like each grandparent and 50% like the plant you selfed.

So depending on which S1(F2) you select, the resulting S2(F3) generation could produce mostly plants resembling either grandparent or give you another 25/25/50 split.

As well as the fact that for each of the 3 (or 4 or 5 or more, depending on the hybrid) major genotypes is going to have phenotypical variation within a certain range.

The number of phenotypes in an S1 or S2 or F2 or F3 depends on the heterozygous-ness of the parent(s) selected.

In short. selfing is no more a guarantee of uniform offspring than back crossing is. They are both useful tools in refining a gene pool, but no "panacea of uniformity". They can be used as steps toward increasing trait frequency, but that is about the extent of their usefulness.

Upon re-reading your original statement. It was a homozygous land-race which was selfed. The progeny and their progeny will be no different from most representatives of said land-race who’s parentage was selected for desirable traits. Breeding within a land-race gene-pool and selecting superior plants will increase the frequency of the traits you selected for. But, selfing a plant will never produce ‘carbon copies’ of said plant.

"In science it often happens that scientists say, ‘You know that’s a really good argument; my position is mistaken,’ and then they actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. . It happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." – Carl Sagan

"There is rebirth of character, but no transmigration of a self. Thy thought-forms reappear, but there is no egoentity transferred. The stanza uttered by a teacher is reborn in the scholar who repeats the words. Only through ignorance and delusion do men indulge in the dream that their souls are separate and self-existent entities.""Our thinking is gone, but our thoughts continue. Reasoning ceases, but knowledge remains." – Buddha